Cheating Part 2

Cheaters part 2

Welcome to Sex and the one the podcast with Bea and KV getting down and dirty about all things sex, dating and relationships, welcome. Oh, welcome. What song are we singing this place? I want something just like this. No, no, no, no. Okay, that's probably where they I don't I wonder what song they were playing when? Yeah, yeah. So we're going to do with as promised last week, we're doing part two of cheating, but we want to talk more less with the personal stories, because lucky and what's happening there, yeah, and why it is such a gray area. Why does it matter all of the others? Yeah, yeah. Where do you want to go first? Darling. Where do you want to go first? I just wanted to mention the drift. Yeah, okay, because I. Feel like that plays into this topic a little. I.

Playing when?

Yeah,

so we're gonna do as promised. Last week, we're doing part two of cheating, but this week, we want to talk more less with the personal stories and what's happening there, yeah, and why it is such a gray area. Why does it matter all of the above? Yeah, yeah, where do you want to go first? Going, where do you want to go first? I just wanted to mention the drift, because I feel like that plays into this topic a little bit. And if you are in a, like, a long term relationship, marriage, whatever

that when I when we spoke about the drift that last couple of weeks ago, that those little gaps in time, you know, when we identify the like, the lack of in that moment, that that's actually the point of Intel, that if you let those little things go, this is where it could lead to, like, the moments of the satisfaction, if they come along and fill the gap, couldn't they? That's, don't let there be fucking gaps. Yeah. That's my life mission. No gaps, baby. No gaps. That's probably Yeah. That's why, yeah. But, I mean, there's so many levels of achieving so I asked yesterday, this is now two weeks ago, but yesterday for us, what is a behavior or a sentence or something that you've noticed from someone that made you suspect they were cheating, and were you right signs of cheating? And my beautiful married people all do the same thing as usual, which they they all said, I've got no idea. That's never happened to me. I wasn't necessarily talking about the people themselves, of course, because I was talking about just in general. Yeah. Talking about just in general, yeah. But as and you'll probably understand this as a married person, because I was the same when I was married. You just, like you just, you operate in a world where it's about you and your in your relationship. You don't go into a relationship going, I've got to look up for these signs, like, I've got to, you know, he's going to do this, or I'm going to do that. So you go into a relationship thinking, this is going to be Yeah, relationship, and if someone else asks you a question, yeah, you tend to go on my relationships. I have no experience with that, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

your relationship just in general, yeah, you know. But it's a time where you can go, I'm proud, and I love that. Like, I literally do that very often, because I told you, like, I get really, you know, I get a bit funny about sharing how positive my relationship here not I am proud of it, and I want to scream it from the rooftops, but I acknowledge, you, not everyone has that, and I'm an empath, and I don't want to hurt people's feelings. Yeah, so I don't want to do that. You and I have had this conversation, because I think people need to see what else is out there, so that they know that there's better. Because if they don't know that there's better, then they think they've got something great. I thought my marriage was great. I did when I was in my denial and thought that nothing was happening with him besides the marriage. I thought it was great. It was shit. I honestly think that it comes down to your inner self worth, yes, your self esteem, your self confidence. Because I would never like, there's some things that I've heard over the last couple of weeks that some men do or have done. And I'm like, mate, if you did that to me, like I look at in the eyeballs, if you even fucking tried that, you're out. Like, I do not stand for shit. But

even then, like, I give you a bit of a was this, but we have people laugh about it, yeah? And I was like, I think Ed is the way he is because I trained him to be like this. Yeah. I don't know, and it was a joke, but I'm like, no, no, when you didn't respond to my text, to be like, where's my fucking text? Yeah, we're teenagers, yeah? And like, why don't you text me back? Yeah? Like, you need to respond to my message. Like, when it was the getting back together thing, yeah, if you do not stop recreational whatever, yeah, I was like, I'm sorry. I'm not

doing this None for me. So I always gave those little it's not an ultimatum, but it's a decision. Yeah, choice, yeah. I think I choose to be a dick and cheat on me. Give me their side. Because a lot of women say what you say, and a lot of them do what you do, yeah, but then they don't mean it, because the man comes back and goes, Look, the issue is, I agree with you, but also the issue is, you've got two kids up, and then he starts the recreational drug use again, and he does once, he does it twice. That's that's not okay. It twice. That's that's not okay. But I didn't give you enough of that at what point. That's not true. Yes, I would. But you know what I mean, that's the issue, is it really, sorry, that's me. And when these things tend to happen, they creep up on you. And it's so it's never like I was lucky that I had a really clear cut easy decision. It's not, you didn't. You didn't have a clear cut easy decision. You chose it to be a pretty easy decision if you are dissatisfied in certain areas of your relationship. And I have voiced this before, yeah, you have to communicate that you have to work on that fucking being in a marriage is really hard. Being in a long term relationship, in a relationship, having to factor in someone else share this fucking hard it's an effort every single day. You have to choose to make it work. If I don't think I could currently do that, no, and I understand why you win. I totally understand why. Yeah, I can fully in the depth of my soul, understand why it is hard, yeah, daily, yes. When I say hard, if you have to choose to make the effort for it to work, yes, yeah. Because easily, you could be dissatisfied at anything. And I think dissatisfaction is quite a broad term, but if you allow, if you don't pick up on it, like the details I was talking about, the drift, if you don't pick up on the gaps, the gap is going to get bigger, and then these signs are going to talk signs that we're going to talk about are going to occur, and you're going to let them slip, yeah, and then you will be changed, or you'll be you won't know. For me, I had to, like they know they could wear the Whisper. For me, I had the brick and I saw the whisper and the knock, and ignored both kids. Yeah, and no. Self esteem. It was a self esteem. I agree with you. You sorry. I've never known.

Because your strength, your esteem, was higher than mine, 100% was it like, I never looked at myself having that, but now, like, yeah. So some of these things that I thought were really interesting, some of the answers that I thought were really interesting. So what behaviors have you noticed? Right? Yeah, people, someone said a couple people said this when they accuse you of cheating 100% so in fairly violence world, yeah, that's the first thing like a person using violence will do, yeah, to the victim survivor. They say you're watching and accuse them over and over and over and over again, yeah? And it's just his telltale sign. You see it all the time, and it's because they're doing Yeah, yeah. A few people said he started dressing better. He had new outfits, and, like, he started like, you know, taking care of his appearance, and he wasn't before. This is so not related, but related. Yeah, my husband gets addicted to certain things, yeah, shoes, clothing, perfume, yeah. I just want someone. This happened yesterday. I just want someone to walk past me and say, Oh, he smells so good. And I'm like, why the fuck would you want that? Because he wants to do that. So he went in after shades. I was like, but are you looking for someone else? Like, isn't it, like, I'm not gonna Isn't it like, I'm not going to tell you about you smell good. Like,

what would that make? Do you need me to it takes a village. Maybe it is. This is the thing. It doesn't hurt to have someone else who's attractive to say that. No, it doesn't hurt that. That is not cheating. That's just validation. And everybody just wants to smell good. Everybody wants to be like this. Anyway, long

story. All right, what's the story? So a couple of them were like, and I'll paraphrase because they were similar, and we talked quite a bit about the sad stuff. I don't want to overly focus on the sad stuff this week, but it starts with the tiny things. It starts with their phone being in their foot, instead of on the on the couch, and instead of showing you stuff, and like, you know, like, even to the point where they're sitting on the couch. So, like, they used to sit together so that you could both see each other's phones, not that you're looking, but, you know, people who are hiding again. And all of sudden, you're at the other end, but they pretend that they're at the other end for another reason than they are. And, and all of a sudden, two years later, you realize they've slept at 18 people, you know. And so the sign is there at the start. We were discussing this yesterday. A lot of the signs, like, for example, the person spending more time in their bedroom, because that means they texting. Because that means they're texting or whatever, and a lot of them can be attributed to other things. Yes, you know. So it's like, Well, okay, she's had a whole day with kids, so unfortunately, having some time off at what point is it suspicious? And you know what one is suspicious is when your gut fucking tells you Yeah. Because yeah, most of the behavior isn't suspicious in itself. It's when your gut goes, hang on. I feel differently about this, because I could tell you that story with Anthony, the perfume, you don't feel like he's gone and go to smell him. Well, he had a child about it funny, but you don't feel your gut is not going, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, about that behavior. But if your gut was then it could be considered one of the things, yeah, that's what we really talked about a lot, was the fact that it could be, yeah, that it could be. I could go either way, but you do know, intuitively and like, it's paying attention to the intuition. A lot of people send phone, iPhones in one room and then the phone in the other room, and the messages, oh, so I

listen to this other podcast, I said, another podcast called betrayal. Yeah,

she basically has women on men that share their betrayal stories, right? And most of the time, if that captures, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It usually starts with something tiny the time they get raisin because they've gotten away with it. And there must be, and, you know, I guess I need to understand more about and I don't, there's a certain, there's a certain joy that people get from getting away with it. Like, yeah, there must be some sort of thrill that I haven't experienced, you know, like that hit that you first get when you first get when you meet someone and you're really giddy. It's like, the what's the thrill of the chase? Yeah? Like, it's something about that emotion, I feel like, that hormone that, yeah, see, this is me because I'm single, so it's different, but it's me on holidays when I'm on holidays, yeah, I absolutely love that. Well, it's the same thing, but they offer it whilst in a relationship, I'm guessing, because that can that dies down. Like, yes, you don't stay in your period forever, yeah. And I think that that's fair to say that that which is why marriage, I'm saying, which is separate, separate to this conversation in early but it's why I have, like, strong opinions about monogamy, yes, because something like, needs in other areas of interest, and like, especially people that are bi, they might want to experience the same sex and make marriage to the opposite sex, or whatever. And it's that's it for cheating. By the way, I think that if you're in a relationship like that, and you are going to consider the other person, like the person's sexual orientation, that you would explore other ways you feel that need. Yeah, you're closing the gap, whatever the fuck you need to do to close the gap. Yes, I agree. I like that. So someone else has said that they've got a friend who is having sex with a guy currently who is married, and she's a friend is married single, the guy is married, and she doesn't care. What's

your opinion on that? Talk to me. Yeah,

real good.

Talk to me as well. This

deception, like I can't get over that feeling of how I can't imagine it, but like you articulated it in the last episode, but I really those initial feelings that you would get to have found out that this is going on, I would, I don't know if I'd be able to function as fast as you did. Like, I don't have to get going, but I know. But it's that's a lot. And I just, what does it say about well, this is the thing I was, I was very fixated for a long time on the other women, like, what.

Are they doing? What were they thinking? What she knows actually knows? Yeah, that stings more. Yeah. And so for me, it's like you you're so basically, their theory is they're not married. That's his problem, but your actions are actively contributing to the demise of the demise of someone else's marriage. And when, when she finds out, she will be devastated, and you will have contributed to her devastation.

I spoke to some people yesterday that said to me over and over again that they had done things like that when they were younger. They had participated in those kind of things, and as you know, I did once as well, and it stays with you forever, your role in wrecking someone else's life. And it's not okay. No, no, no, it's not but something like this, I don't know if you're a Psych and you can fucking put words to this, like, there's got to be something chemically, there's got to be something that that does to someone, to let that settle in and be like, I'm okay with this. I'm okay with this behavior. I think this is where cheating gets singled out. It's a little bit similar to jealousy, in a sense, it gets it's an emotion that gets singled out as a hater, that gets singled out as good thing because I singled it out in my marriage, a good thing that was not okay. I don't want to feel jealous. I don't want cheating. And it's like, the thing, but like, people do many, many, many things to hurt other people in lots of situations in life, but this is the one thing that people have lines about, and I do too, you know, like, so if you could hurt someone else by eating a certain thing in front of them, then they don't eat that or whatever. Yeah, and, like, at what point is it? Like, no, that's my life. That's your life. And so there's a lot of people that would think, Oh, well, that's not like, that person's wife is not my problem. But I actually, I think, goes way deeper than that. I think women have been taught from birth to compare and compete, and we don't consider each other when we're making our decisions. And I have been like an advocate for years and years and years, and I've made some not good decisions, and I and I've changed how I operate to always consider women, and I have often fallen on my sword when I know a man is treating another woman a certain way. He might not be treating me that way, but he's gone Bye, goodbye. I think it speaks to, I don't know who this woman is, and I don't, I don't want to judge her, because, like, we'll just have that whole discussion. But it speaks to that person's current values, wisdom. And yeah, if honesty is not one of them, like, right now, let's imagine what she's going through to have to make the decision, yeah, to do this with a wife. Knows, like, there are relationships like that. You know that they're on fucking red hot pie or whatever? Yeah? So they exist. And okay, if you want to do that, and you that little thrill, and you want to get that hit of, you know, hormone release, then do it the legit way, yeah. But then there's something, without it being dark and shady, that brings another element. Well, this is to me, I think there's a joy in, and I'm gonna say nothing, it's gonna sound too direct, but there's a joy in hurting someone someone else. Not that the joy is directly into hurting someone else, but, you know, someone else, but you know, someone else is getting hurt. Like, that's certainly the case in my situation, yeah, not my actions, yeah, but yeah, I don't know. I think people are like, there's, there's many pure element to some people pure. You want to hear another story, yep. So I'd celebrate this really beautiful thing, and I want to read it. In the past, I was in a relationship where I felt cheated on because he was paying for personal paying for personal, individualized consent form and sex workers. I knew he watched porn, and I just found it confronted when I found on his home computer photos of a woman with his name written all over her. He was obsessed with a girl he went to school with and always felt second string to her. He did nearing the end of that time together and tried to sleep with her, which massively backfired on him. She ended up hitting me up when we broke up at the time, I said, No, thanks. I'm not into girls, but that small evil part of me now thinks it would have been Sweet Revenge for how he treated me in the last years. So this girl was in her sisterhood right there. The general feeling was I was constantly trying to hold down a relationship. It was never really mine to begin with. I knew that in my gut, and I was always on the watch for signs that he was keeping loyal every fight he would really back in and delete all these evidence and make me feel crazy, and to me, manipulation absolute that just explains cheating to a T, they make you feel like you've done something. They might be doing behaviors that you feel are weird and wrong, and you ignore them because you feel you're crazy. And that's why people don't find out about cheating. That's why, when they do find out about cheating, you feel somehow responsible, because you sort of sending you and then it messes with your head. Oh, absolutely. Things like I do to make him cheat. What can I change?

Fuck, I do. You know, the

stats on like men cheating versus like women cheating? Do we have any of that? I'm curious. I should Google it, you talk. I mean, Google, okay, some of the other things that are signs are when they justify someone else's cheating actions, people talking things like blah, blah, blah, she did not sound like that, right? So much I make themselves feel better when they come home to shower after they've seen someone coming home to shower. This is the thing when money's missing, and again, with the strange fascination with self improvement and locked, locked phones, which we talked about a lot already, and organizing outings for you when they want to say, you go and you go and

do this. So studies like the General Social Survey show that men generally report slightly I'm very fascinated, higher rates of infidelity than women. Approximately 20% of men and 13% of women admitting to having had sex with someone other than their spouse whilst married, that's according to the Institute for Family Studies. You know, what is this about men not having their needs met sexually?

Is this about women not having their needs met? Their needs met sexually? Like why did you just go and get any emotion?

Is also we haven't talked about, but, you know, let's do another episode. Um, what is cheating? Because when has cheating occurred? Has cheated occurred when they text the person, when they download the app, when they talk to the person, yeah. Like, at what point is it cheating? Do you know what? I think the answer is that it's the words not cheating. I think it's deception, yeah, and betrayal, yeah. If there, if those emotions pop up, it's like, You deceived me. You betrayed me. That's enough. If ant downloaded an app and nothing occurred from that, I've lost that little link of trust that bound us together. It's gone. Yeah, I agree. And I think your gut tells you the answer, yeah. For you, some people, it has to be the full sex. Some people, it's the app, and there's only in between. But your gut tells you, for you, what's what's not okay. For me, it had to be years and years and years of, like, infidelity. For me to I didn't know from the time, but like, my life, like, do you think you think you I was told when it was when I was strong enough? Yeah, yeah, you're strong enough now for the nap. Done, done.

Yeah. What a fuck with me. Don't download an app. Don't do it. Don't do it. See you

next week. Thanks for listening to the panel podcast,

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