Eleanor Hadley
KV (00:01.285)
Welcome, welcome, welcome. We are so, so, so excited. I think this is probably the most exciting episode we've ever recorded because we are so, so, so lucky. Bea and I have been talking for quite a while about how we call ourselves sex enthusiasts, like massive sex and orgasm enthusiasts. And we could not be more excited to have an actual sex expert on the
Bianca (00:09.377)
think so.
KV (00:30.213)
pod today. So exciting. Welcome Eleanor Hadley. I hope I'm saying your name correctly. We are like legit. I've been kind of like jumping up and down today thinking about interviewing you. So like you're like our superstar. So thank you so much for coming on the pod.
Bianca (00:34.146)
Welcome!
Eleanor (00:43.188)
you
Bianca (00:50.549)
Yes, and I'm a bit of a fan girl myself. I'm a part of like your smart sluts group and I'm all up in that telegram thread. I'm learning lots.
Eleanor (00:50.813)
Aw.
Eleanor (01:02.072)
amazing. It's such a pleasure to be here. It's such a pleasure to learn that you're part of Smutsluts as well. That's amazing. We love it in there.
KV (01:02.447)
Yeah.
KV (01:09.797)
So we thought maybe we should start off like with probably you know the background type questions if that's okay with you. So we know that you had a bit of a history in the corporate world and we're kind of wondering how you made the connection and sort of what happened for you to move into the sex space and what you've been doing professionally for that.
Eleanor (01:33.524)
Yeah, so my history before I became a sex coach, it wasn't really something that I set out to become. all just sort of unfolded for me quite naturally. My history is actually more in dance. I used to own a pole dancing studio years ago in Melbourne. I had that for four years. And before I bought that studio, I was just a student and really like loving.
being a student of pole dance, but feeling like it was a little bit taboo and I would only tell certain people. And then I just gradually kind of gave less and less fucks and got really, really into it to the point where I was like, I need one of my own. So I bought a studio, ran it for four years, had a great time. And then through my work at
the studio, I kind of realized how important and how empowering it was for women to have a safe space to be able to move and explore their sensuality. And so I ended up selling the business because I wanted to focus more on the embodied side of movement and how powerful movement could be for, for your confidence and for your empowerment overall. And
I wanted it to focus less on the performative element. So that's why I sold the studio. Then I focused on sensual movement, creating my own style of practice. And then from there, I was just constantly talking all about sensuality. I got really interested in sexuality, started studying life coaching, specializing in sensuality, and eventually studied somatic sex coaching as well. And it all just kind of...
flowed very, very organically and it felt really, really natural to go down this path and to empower women in particular, but people of all genders to really like own their sexual confidence and to really understand how pleasurable their life can be and how much of a priority sex is in a relationship as well.
Bianca (03:42.065)
100%. Isn't it? I can really relate to the dancing embodiment and how that feels. I used to dance myself and we actually spoke about, well, we're to be speaking about this on one of our episodes and how that makes a woman feel when they get to be in their body and move so freely.
KV (03:42.319)
That's amazing.
Eleanor (03:45.708)
Thank
and
Bianca (04:02.538)
So I love that that's what you're about. And it just makes so much sense that an enmeshment, enmeshment, you know, from moving from the pole dancing studio into the way you make people feel and now, you know, the sex education, it's really inspiring. And yeah, I just, it just, in my mind, it's so empowering for women. And I think there's so much that we can all learn from you. So we're really excited to hear that story and obviously move on from what that brings. Do you?
You talk about the smooth transition and how that felt. Has it always been a smooth ride for you though or was there a time where you have you have you felt completely disconnected from your body before?
Eleanor (04:43.2)
Yeah, absolutely. I think we all have seasons where we feel that disconnection, you know, whether that is you're going through a transition like motherhood, parenting, whether you're experiencing health issues, stress in your work life. Like there's so many different things that can impact how we feel about ourselves and how connected we feel to our body. Something that I feel a lot of.
Bianca (05:08.991)
Yeah.
Eleanor (05:11.148)
people experience is this disconnection to the physical body, to their sensation. We often live our entire lives up in our head and it feels like we are just a floating head thinking, thinking, thinking all the time and we can kind of forget that like from the neck down we've got this whole body that is really capable of so much sensation and so much feeling and
That is where my work comes in. You know, it's like getting out of your head and into your body and really connecting to the somatic experience.
KV (05:46.277)
So if someone came to you with wanting some help in a certain area and they said to you, like, I have trouble having an orgasm, example, do you have any, mean, obviously it's, you know, person by person basis, but do you have any sort of like general tips that you would have for someone in that area?
Eleanor (05:57.91)
Yeah.
Eleanor (06:07.848)
Yeah. So when someone's experienced a difficulty in orgasm, reaching orgasm or feeling that sort of sense of pleasure, there's so many things that could be at play. know, a lot of the time people assume it's simply the technique and they're like, okay, well, let's just figure out a different technique. And if we touch a certain way, that's going to change everything. But often it's actually in our mind and it's the way that we're
Bianca (06:29.831)
We.
Eleanor (06:36.446)
approaching sex and pleasure that we can kind of cocklock ourselves. We can just sort of like switch it off. And if we have stories about whether or not we deserve pleasure, if we are safe to experience pleasure, if we're safe to express our pleasure in the bedroom, that's all going to have an impact on whether or not we actually can reach orgasm.
So yeah, there's definitely the physiological side of things. Most people are having penetrative sex way too quickly, way too soon. We need a lot more time than people think to actually physiologically be ready to receive. And that can have a huge, huge impact on whether or not we reach our pleasure potential. We can maybe have like a little bit of pleasure, but it might not really fully get to that.
Bianca (07:12.646)
And.
Eleanor (07:34.964)
like amazing point of orgasmic bliss because we're rushing it. And so there's that side. And then there's also like our, our safety, our nervous system. If we're, if we feel comfortable enough to fully let go and express ourselves in pleasure, if we feel like we deserve it, if we feel like it's okay to want it to, to desire it, you know, there's so many things that go into whether or not we're going to reach orgasm. It's not as simple.
Bianca (07:39.486)
Yeah.
Bianca (07:45.77)
There is one thing, sorry, KB.
Eleanor (08:04.365)
for us as it may be for people of other genders you know.
KV (08:10.191)
Yeah, and like it. Sorry, there you go.
Bianca (08:14.452)
There's one thing that I love that you keep really simple though, and it's like if you can't find the simple pleasures throughout your day, then you most likely will not find it like in the bedroom or outside of that space. And I think that that's something that really hit hard on me because it is simple as in like, just sit there. What are the simple things that you can look around and be grateful for that you can then also find pleasure in outside of that space? And that was just like a moment for me.
So thank you for being so honest and sharing that because I think, you know, most of our listeners, like they, you know, they engage with us behind the scenes, but there are things that, you know, we haven't been able to say and put as simply as that. And that's just so effective and a great perception and how to share that with others. So thank you for that.
Eleanor (09:02.316)
Thank you.
KV (09:03.267)
And I think too, like, I mean, this is a question, but it's going to be a statement slash question because it matters who you're in the bedroom with too, yeah? And whether you are by yourself or whether you do have, you've invited someone else into your space. And so that would definitely affect all of the other things as well, I'm assuming.
Eleanor (09:25.942)
Definitely, definitely. And this comes back to that sort of safety element. And, you know, I'm not talking just physical safety, I'm talking like emotional safety. Do I trust this person to kind of hold this energetic space for me to actually fully let go? Or am I worried about what they think of me? You know, am I nervous that they're going to just kind of like up and leave after we have sex? Am I thinking that they...
Bianca (09:34.632)
you
Eleanor (09:54.06)
are prioritizing their pleasure over mine. There's so many things that can come up with relation to the person that we've actually invited into our bedroom. If we don't feel that sense of excitement and desire and trust and safety, then it can absolutely be a lot harder for us to reach orgasm. And I think a lot of the time, particularly as women, we have this idea that...
we get this like gold star tick of approval if we have made our partner come in a heterosexual sense. It's like, okay, my job here is to make them come. And typically in a heterosexual setting, it's pretty fucking easy for them to come, right? Generally speaking, most of the time. And so,
Bianca (10:26.761)
Yes.
Eleanor (10:43.196)
the goal is often their orgasm and that can come quite quickly and quite simply and easily to that person. But for us, we get kind of lumped in this too hard basket and female orgasms are kind of put on this like, like nice to have, but not necessary. And I just think that that's such a shame because not only are like, you know, these men potentially,
not really prioritizing our pleasure, but we're not prioritizing it ourselves as well. We're not advocating for our pleasure. And so this is something that I tell clients is like advocate for your pleasure. Like it's not good enough to just be like, oh, okay, they came. And so I guess that's the full stop on sex. No, I don't know. Like their ejaculation isn't the end of the sexual experience. Like you deserve to come to.
Bianca (11:28.036)
Okay.
Eleanor (11:40.268)
And I feel like I have to kind of drum that into people because we've been so conditioned to go, oh, I guess now we're done because he is. No, no, no, no.
KV (11:49.229)
Yeah, because someone would talk about finding it too hard to calm, took too long, whatever. And I would imagine, you know, there'd be times where both of the couple would lose patience with the process. What would you say to people that who say, I've never had an orgasm? I actually had this recently, we do question of the week and we ask like a whole bunch of people like one certain question.
Bianca (11:49.817)
And then.
Eleanor (11:53.013)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
KV (12:15.289)
When I asked somebody what was the maximum number of orgasms they've had in a sexual encounter, and this one lady told me she was 35 years old and that she'd never had an orgasm. So what would you say, what advice would you give for that?
Bianca (12:24.588)
Really.
Eleanor (12:25.152)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Eleanor (12:31.37)
I would tell this person and anyone else listening who resonates that that is completely normal and you are not alone, you are not broken, there's nothing wrong with you and we can shift our perspective and when you shift the perspective from orgasm being the goal of sex to pleasure being the goal of sex
Bianca (12:40.879)
No.
Eleanor (12:58.118)
and allowing yourself to explore your body, take more time, not feel this rush, not feel this burden that you're taking too long. If you are with someone who is patient and who understands your anatomy, and if you give yourself permission as well to open up and explore pleasure and you're not sort of like kind of grasping and like reaching and kind of like
Bianca (13:04.231)
Yeah.
Eleanor (13:25.324)
tensing your body, you know, like that kind of like, I'm trying to push out this orgasm right now. Like it's, it's a very different energy if you soften into your pleasure and being really patient with yourself because yeah, we, we have these kind of neural pathways that we've built over time, right? And for a of people, they have like one way that they come and that's the only way that they can ever come, right? And if they try something else, they're like, oh, I'm frustrated because that
Bianca (13:33.991)
Yeah.
Eleanor (13:54.816)
Like that didn't work for me. need to go back to my, my original way. And then if we don't have that experience at all, it's like, don't know where to go. So we have to kind of build these new neural pathways by self pleasure, exploration, patients, like really tuning in and listening to your body. and trying to tune out all the stories that might be holding you back, you know, cause there's most likely something, some story in the back of your mind that is saying,
Bianca (14:04.339)
.
Eleanor (14:24.006)
No, actually, you're not allowed to get there. There's something wrong if you get there. There's something going on.
Bianca (14:29.607)
Which brings it all back into your mind, which then complicates the pleasure. So we're back to that space. But there was something that I did love. And it was when you actually went into one of the adult stores and educated the workers there. And you also had like a 3D sort of tool that you were showing them the actual anatomy of a female. And I was
I was like, my God, check this out. Like I wanted, I was fascinated. But I have a little question, like other than the fact that I loved that you did that, the fact that you were in that store sort of raised this little question for myself. And look, I'm quite an essential being, you know, myself. I praise myself on that. I pride myself on it. People know it. I talk about it all the time.
Eleanor (15:01.91)
Thank
Bianca (15:24.839)
But there is one thing that gets my go and I tell Chris about this often and I cannot enjoy the pleasure of a vibrator. It's like the stimulation of it is too much for me. And I just thought, you know what? What would you tell someone like me who doesn't have a great... Let me identify myself. Who doesn't have a great history with a sex toy like that.
KV (15:45.25)
Thank you for listening.
Eleanor (15:54.188)
Yeah, absolutely. first of all, thank you. I love doing that work, training the staff. It's a shop called Hall of Harper and the Gold Coast. Very beautiful if anyone's ever in the area. It's cool. And very well trained staff, if I may say so myself. But in terms of vibrators, totally fine. know, everyone's got different levels of sensitivity.
Bianca (16:05.583)
Gorgeous. Yeah. We are.
KV (16:07.801)
We're going there for sure.
KV (16:12.493)
Thanks.
Bianca (16:13.669)
Thanks to you.
Eleanor (16:22.508)
Just like we all have different flavors of food that we like and we don't like, right? Like, nothing is going to be for everyone. And so if you find, or if anybody else listening finds vibrators to be too intense, cool. You don't have to use them at all. There's other toys that you can use if you want to introduce something else. You know, there are softer vibrators available that aren't like quite intense because...
A lot of them do have like a very similar motor system and it's like, you know, the zzzz then it's a zzzz and then it's the zzzz like it's the same patterns. for a lot of them and it's like seven speeds. It's this whole thing, right? And for a lot of people, yeah, that can feel like going to intense.
Bianca (16:54.661)
Yes.
Bianca (17:04.154)
Yeah.
KV (17:05.984)
everyone just at the same speed.
Eleanor (17:09.724)
Yeah, yeah. I honestly don't get all the patterns, but you know, I think there's a handful of people out there that like them, but I think majority of people are like, chill out with the patterns. Just go. But no, if, if you find it to be too sensitive, then amazing. That is really, really valuable, valuable feedback for your body. No, I don't enjoy that sensation.
KV (17:20.121)
Yeah, on. Let's go.
Bianca (17:33.197)
Mmm.
Eleanor (17:37.204)
And you don't have to like make yourself enjoy that sensation. You can try different things. Maybe you're more of like an acoustic girly. Maybe you enjoy like playing around with some different types of lube. Maybe you enjoy, you know, maybe a suction vibe is, is a little bit nicer. Yeah.
KV (17:54.629)
I thinking that, yeah.
Bianca (17:56.453)
Well, so my husband did a bit of research once he figured all this out and then for my birthday he ended up buying me a thruster instead. And I was like, this is, this is good. Like this is, it's a different motion. And yes, you can still add the vibration if you like, but I was like, thank you. Like I didn't, to be honest, I just thought something was wrong with me and I'm like, well, it's just not for me. And you can keep trying to buy different ones, but it's not going to work. Like I just don't enjoy it.
Eleanor (18:03.284)
Okay, great. Yeah.
Eleanor (18:22.39)
Totally. And that's the thing I would really, really suggest that anybody listening who is resonating in any way around this topic, that you don't have to like the same thing that everyone else likes. Like it's about tuning into your body. Cause what we're doing if we are saying, well everyone else likes this. I'm just going to try and put up with it is we're bypassing our body and we're telling ourselves.
Bianca (18:35.233)
Yeah.
Eleanor (18:47.51)
We're sending a message basically to our pussy going, doesn't matter what you think. Like, I'm not going to listen to you. And the best pleasure, the most expansive experience of pleasure is going to come from you listening to your body, trusting your body, like honoring your body's boundaries as well. Cause if you're going, and I feel very strongly about like penetrative type of tools or like any type of penetrative sex, whether that's fingers.
Bianca (18:52.385)
Yeah.
Bianca (19:13.953)
Mm-hmm.
Eleanor (19:17.132)
dildo or a penis. If we're going too fast and we suddenly kind of insert something before we are actually physiologically ready, lubed up enough and actually engorged physiologically, we have like that blood flow through the clitoris, through the vulva and we have that like kind of puffy donut sort of, you know, look. If we're going too soon,
Bianca (19:39.291)
Yep.
Eleanor (19:44.114)
That is us basically crossing our biggest boundary and our pussy is going to be like, no, no, no, this isn't, I'm not ready for this. And you're trying to put something inside me when I'm not ready. I don't have enough blood flow here and it's simply not going to feel as pleasurable. And this is why a lot of people actually say, yeah, like I'm, I don't like penetrative sex and that's all well and good. Some people it's just not, doesn't feel as good. There aren't as many nerve endings internally in the vaginal canal.
Bianca (19:54.883)
Yes.
Eleanor (20:13.782)
There's way more nerve endings in the tip, the outside area of the clitoris. But if we take our time, if we get fully engorged, we have erectile tissue through the vulva, just like someone with a penis has erectile tissue all through their penis. And it takes us longer for that to kind of build. And once we have taken that time, then it's more likely that penetrative sex is actually going to feel pleasurable.
Bianca (20:16.355)
Yeah. Yeah.
Eleanor (20:44.074)
And the analogy that I would use for this is would you try and have sex with a soft cop? You could, right? But it's probably not going to feel as good for the person, right? They're to be like, okay, like, would you just go and like, kind of like fondle their balls and not touch the rest of, like, you don't touch the tip at all? Like try and give a blow job, but you're just doing like the con cog and you don't touch the tip. Right? And this is like legitimately what I ask people.
Bianca (20:52.336)
You can't.
Bianca (20:58.548)
No.
Eleanor (21:13.62)
And especially men, and I'm like, okay, would that feel good? They're like, not really, like you're missing the best bit. I'm like, cool. So don't forget about the clitoris and also take the time to get the blood flow there. Like we want to have sex with a hard cock. That's the entire purpose. Erectile tissue, we have the same thing. It's just within the clitoris and the clitoris is all underneath. It's internal as well as the tiny, tiny bit that we see externally, but we need that blood flow.
Bianca (21:18.179)
Thank you.
Yes.
Bianca (21:43.106)
I know, I love that thing. I think all the men listening need to watch the video.
Eleanor (21:43.828)
I have it.
KV (21:47.161)
They
KV (21:51.097)
Yeah, we need to see the thing. And can I tell you why we love it? Well, this is what Bea told me yesterday. She's gonna be mortified that I'm gonna share this. But she goes, that's my labia. She showed my labia.
Bianca (21:59.141)
shit, what is she saying?
Eleanor (22:04.044)
Oh, okay, let me get the lady a tooth. We don't have to tell, we don't have to say which one is which.
Bianca (22:06.475)
My god, stop it. You're embarrassing me.
Do you know why? Because I wanted to have, I was talking about having labia surgery. like, it just doesn't look the same. Like it doesn't look like everyone else's. doesn't. Then we went to the Museum of Desire and there's this section where they had pictures of just vulvas everywhere with, you know, it was just everywhere. And I'm like, oh, hers looks like mine. Oh, maybe. And after pregnancy, I've had three kids. Like it actually looks different. It's darker. Like the labia folds are, you know.
KV (22:14.053)
She... She... Yeah!
Eleanor (22:27.178)
Yes.
Eleanor (22:33.91)
Yeah.
Eleanor (22:38.902)
Yeah.
Bianca (22:40.042)
And then, yeah, so when you showed that, I was like, and I don't know if people tell you this, but I'm I'm I seriously am a fan girling right now. I'm actually sweating like I just can't believe we're having this conversation, but.
Eleanor (22:53.132)
You're cute.
Bianca (22:53.792)
I just like, I wanna cry just listening because, to you, because I've felt, I know I've got UKV and like we talk a lot about sex, but this is next level and as a married woman, I've been with my husband for over 20 years. Like I think we have a great sex life, I do, but there are times when it's like stale and just, know, let's have some fun, which is why we end up buying all these different things or trying different things, but thank you. Like just thank you for letting me feel the way I feel.
and that it's okay to feel that way. And I think, yeah, we just, thank you. I've got nothing else to say.
Eleanor (23:30.39)
You're gonna make me cry now. It's really, really beautiful to hear that. And this is a really important part of my work. And the reason that I'm so passionate about it is because the amount of people that come to me and say, I feel like I'm broken. I feel like there's something wrong with me. And it's simply that they don't understand that their bodies are different and...
Bianca (23:48.257)
Thank you.
Eleanor (23:57.898)
And they're not meant to be one way and that we don't see a lot of representation. we don't see vulva diversity very often. And it's so powerful when you start to learn more about your body, like our sex ed failed us. It really was just either fear mongering, STIs, how to put a condom on a banana and maybe like fallopian tubes, but it really didn't show much of, or talk about pleasure at all. And I think that.
That's such a shame and that's why I do this work because if we understand what our anatomy looks like, what our anatomy is capable of, like it changes everything. We get to actually appreciate our bodies and not want to change them. And I understand, you know, if you haven't seen representation of what vulvas actually look like outside of pornography,
Bianca (24:43.968)
.
Eleanor (24:54.504)
then yeah, you might have that desire to go, maybe I should explore labiaplasty. And unfortunately, labiaplasty is the highest growing cosmetic surgery at the moment. And people are sort of preying on this insecurity. And that's why I'm so like, like, let's talk about it. Let's actually see what they look like. I've got a friend who do are you familiar with comfortable in my skin?
Bianca (25:09.641)
Sorry.
Eleanor (25:21.036)
My friend Ellie, she's a vulva photographer. She has a coffee table book called Flip Through My Flaps. It literally has photos of over 500 people's vulvas in there. And so you see what they actually look like. And so yeah, so so powerful. And thank you for sharing that with me.
Bianca (25:26.113)
We're gonna get that
KV (25:30.595)
Yeah, we're flipping through the-
Bianca (25:32.5)
Ha ha!
KV (25:42.639)
Can I just before you just go into that, because we totally want to see it, but would you say this happens more to women than men? Because do you think men are in their head about these kind of things as much as women are?
Eleanor (25:54.322)
I wouldn't say as much, definitely they are, you know, there's a lot of like, you know, small penis jokes. There's a lot of cock screaming that goes around a lot of comparisons between, you know, men and, and porn as well. They're typically casting the men with the larger dicks and you know, it, it's definitely a concern for a lot of men for sure. They can feel that shame or that, that fear that their partner is going to make fun of them or not enjoy it or.
KV (26:00.707)
Yeah.
Eleanor (26:24.14)
you know, some men for sure are out there like not really worrying about whether or not their partner comes, but others have an insecurity of like, is there something wrong with me that I couldn't make my partner come? So absolutely, think insecurity happens all around. And so, yeah, it's important for people to really see representation and understand that whatever they're born with, whatever they have, amazing.
Bianca (26:26.336)
Okay.
Eleanor (26:52.594)
It's designed for pleasure. Like, let's focus on what it can bring you. Like, how amazing it is that you have this body part that is designed for pleasure. Like, your whole body can feel pleasure as a result of this. like, that's what we should be celebrating.
Bianca (26:53.152)
Thank
Bianca (27:08.69)
Yeah.
Eleanor (27:11.658)
Yeah. Aiki daiki. So I've got a couple. What was that?
KV (27:12.25)
Love it.
Bianca (27:13.214)
Show us the vulva.
KV (27:14.701)
Yeah, show us. Show us face,
Bianca (27:18.769)
stop! Might not be the light insert so no one will know!
KV (27:24.707)
These flaps.
Eleanor (27:25.148)
Exactly. Yeah. We've got different, we've got different flaps to show you. so firstly, I've got Vivian the vulva here. So this is more of like a cushion vulva. I use this one in person, so that people can actually feel all of the parts and the pieces that I'll explain in a moment. And they can kind of go in here and they can feel internally as well. It's got sort of the G-spot and the cervix and stuff that you can feel physically. So that's Vivian.
Bianca (27:33.649)
Bianca (27:50.281)
Maybe you can teach me how to squirt with that.
Eleanor (27:53.46)
Absolutely. Absolutely. got you. So then we have our other version and this is Virginia the vulva. And so there she is. So what's really, really cool about her is that we can actually see the cross section of the clitoris and what the entire structure looks like.
KV (27:56.729)
No, I'm damn for this!
Bianca (28:09.439)
I'm Virginia.
Eleanor (28:22.836)
So we are familiar with the external and this is someone with, you know, certain types of labia, inner labia here, but I also have different versions. So I'll get those out in a moment as well. And then we can see here, this little pink moment, that is our clitoris. And this is typically what we see from the outside. Some people, their clitoral hood is a bit larger and it covers the clit most of the time. And some people's is more pulled back, but.
Bianca (28:38.605)
Yep.
Bianca (28:42.751)
Yeah.
Eleanor (28:52.704)
What's really fun and exciting about this model is that you can see internally. This is what it looks like. So what we've got here is the entire clitoris. So this is the full structure of the clitoris. We've got the glands, which is the head, the part that we see externally, and then everything else is underneath inside. So we've got the legs here, they're called the crura, and then we've got these bulbs.
KV (28:57.455)
Tududu!
Bianca (28:57.503)
You
Eleanor (29:21.866)
And what is very, very cool is you can see that with this model here, the bulbs are engorged and that means that they are erect, essentially. The clitoris is erectile tissue. And so similar to a penis, when someone gets aroused, blood will flow to the penis and I'll actually show you here. So for example, we have a penis.
Bianca (29:24.351)
Thank
Bianca (29:32.755)
Yeah.
Bianca (29:48.788)
Mm-hmm.
Eleanor (29:49.566)
And it's just hanging out, right? Most of the time the classic. And then blood flows. I have a whole collection, don't you worry. When the blood flows, boom, it kind of goes up and gets hard and erect, right? Same thing happens for us, but it's typically within seconds or minutes of arousal that the body responds and it gets fully, fully hard. For us, it typically takes about like,
KV (29:53.029)
I just love your whole collection.
Bianca (29:55.529)
The demo.
Eleanor (30:18.892)
20 to 40 minutes to fully have that blood flow going on for us to get fully aroused. But most of the time, before we're there, our clitoris looks more like this. So can you see how these vestibular bulbs here are flaccid? Just like a penis would be flaccid most of the time, right? And that's where the blood flow would happen. So that...
Bianca (30:36.257)
Yeah.
Bianca (30:41.35)
Mm hmm.
Eleanor (30:48.182)
can turn into this, which means that penetrative sex can be a lot more pleasurable. So can you imagine, and this is obviously not entirely to scale, but if these vestibular bulbs aren't full of blood flow and we're trying to insert something in between them, right, they're not juicy and plump. And this is the entire clitoris. The clitoris is the most sensitive
part of the human body, regardless of sex or gender. And so if they aren't full of blood, then it's unlikely that we're going to feel as much pleasure. But then when they are engorged, it means that something that goes in between them through the vaginal canal is now rubbing up against the vestibular bulbs, which means the whole clitoris feels more pleasure. So.
Bianca (31:27.613)
Yeah.
KV (31:43.393)
wow.
Bianca (31:44.409)
I know, right? I know.
KV (31:47.237)
I mean, I know the feeling of that, but I wouldn't have been able to describe that if you paid me a million dollars. I would have had no idea to describe that. But that is incredible. on so many levels, by the way, because like you said, so many people go straight for the penitentiary of sex. And just that alone will make people stop and go, okay, I'm not ready for this because I need to be aroused. I need to be, what did you say, engorged. I need to engorge me, buddy.
Eleanor (32:01.685)
you
Eleanor (32:08.78)
take your time.
Eleanor (32:14.092)
that engorge me. Exactly, engorge me. And then just to demonstrate as well, we have different types of vulva, sorry, labia. So this is another style of labia. Basically, it's just it's obviously a different color, different shade. It's got longer asymmetrical lips here. And then I've also got a third variation, but there are by no means only three.
Bianca (32:15.441)
Yeah. Thank you, okay.
KV (32:19.659)
Encoge me!
Eleanor (32:40.596)
variations. So this one's a little bit more asymmetrical as well. You'll see that there's a longer hood. So a longer hood as well over the clitoris. So this one might have to lift up to see the clitoris. But each of them are amazing because they're full of nerve endings, right? The clitoris is obviously the most highly innovated.
KV (32:45.163)
That's my favorite one.
Bianca (33:01.821)
you
Eleanor (33:05.516)
sensitive part of the body, but the labia still has a lot of sensation as well, so it can be really, really pleasurable throughout sex. And some people like the very first one that I had on. Some people's are a little bit shorter as well, but there's no one right way that your labia is supposed to look, and it changes over time. With pregnancy, with childbirth, with menopause, it'll change.
Bianca (33:28.284)
Yep, can confirm.
KV (33:32.397)
Yeah, menopause. Can I ask a question just in that realm with the nerve endings and stuff? Anus, talk to us about what nerve endings we've got happening there and the pleasure.
Eleanor (33:45.046)
Yeah, definitely. So with the anus, second highest concentration of nerve endings in the human body. So really, really pleasurable spot. I know that there is a lot of taboo around anal sex or like touching the anus at all, but if you're, if you can sort of get past that, it's an incredibly, incredibly sensitive zone.
Bianca (33:45.558)
Thank
Eleanor (34:13.58)
that can be incredibly pleasurable. And what's really cool about it is that there's actually nerve endings that connect from the anus to the genitals, to the penis, to the clitoris. And so you often get this kind of referred pleasure. So you might be stimulating the anus or having some kind of like a butt plug, for example, or anal sex, and you might feel it in your genitals as well. So that will sort of refer, which is really, really cool, similar to how like the clitoris
Bianca (34:24.475)
Okay.
Eleanor (34:42.828)
actually lights up the same area of the brain as the nipples. So if you're tweaking the nipples, a lot of people love that. Some people can feel tapped out and like it's too much, but that can also provide a lot of pleasure. So with anal sex, I think that if you can just kind of move past the fact that yes, that's where poo comes from. It's just part and parcel. It's fine.
Bianca (35:04.664)
Yeah.
Eleanor (35:08.296)
It's unlikely that you're going to have any accidents, but if you do remember you just put something in your asshole. it's fine. You can always just go clean up, have a shower. It's all good, but there's a lot of pleasure available there. You do need to go slow. So similar to vaginal sex, you need to go slow, take your time, but it's not self lubricating at all. So I am the biggest, biggest advocate for lube.
Bianca (35:35.58)
Yep.
Eleanor (35:35.582)
lube for all types of sex, not just anal sex. But lube cannot, like simply cannot be skipped for anal sex. So lots and lots and lots again and again, add more, add more. What's the best kind of lube? Okay. I would always suggest a really high quality pH friendly water-based lube. You can use oil-based lube if you are
Bianca (35:44.973)
Okay.
KV (35:48.293)
just wanna flim.
Eleanor (36:03.968)
going like bareback, but you have to use water-based only if you're using any types of toys or condoms, just so that they don't sort of break down. I love, there's quite a different brands that I love, but I would always recommend looking for something that specifically says pH friendly. There's one brand called Bed Intentions that have a microbiome friendly.
Bianca (36:24.812)
Yeah.
Eleanor (36:32.652)
lube that they've like tested to make sure that it doesn't impact the vaginal microbiome, which we all know is very, very sensitive. I recommend that. Supermarket stuff, probably not. Flavoured stuff, ideally not. Try and go as natural as possible, but not so natural that you're just using coconut oil because it's not pH balanced. So look for something that's been tested, you know, there's some science behind it.
Bianca (36:39.555)
Yeah. Well, if you could narrow it down to one thing that you wish
Eleanor (37:04.481)
Bye.
Mm.
Bianca (37:08.705)
men youth about female pleasure, what would that be?
Eleanor (37:13.356)
The main thing is slow the fuck down. It's just understanding that we need that time. Slow down.
Bianca (37:17.787)
Clothes back in. Is that that?
Bianca (37:24.281)
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. But look, Chris and I have different, like, we've just got different views, different stories. That's the point. Like, you know, I would say I'm more of like, know how to orgasm. It's the same thing most of the time. Yes, we try to shake it up. But then that's why I love hearing Chris's journey and hearing her little stories because I'm like,
Eleanor (37:31.123)
We'll see you later, but to start with, slow down.
Eleanor (37:40.619)
Yeah.
Bianca (37:54.362)
haven't tried that. Something as simple as like a little soy candle or something like that I've added into the repertoire because of one of her recommendations. So, you know, I appreciate all stories and all of it, but I feel that that was necessary to share. What about if you could ban one piece of bad sex advice forever? What would that be?
Eleanor (37:58.476)
you
Eleanor (38:18.828)
I have heard several people who, um, experience, know, maybe pain on penetration or a low libido. Um, they've had doctors legitimately say to them, just have a glass of wine. And I think that is the worst advice ever because again, it is not listening to your body at all. What is your body telling you? Okay. Maybe it's saying that you're not ready. Take a little bit more time. So just that idea of rushing through things and bypassing your body.
at all. Terrible, terrible advice.
Bianca (38:50.828)
Hearing you, I didn't see you.
KV (38:50.854)
What's your opinion of porn?
Eleanor (38:53.26)
Thanks.
KV (38:58.297)
I'm deliberately leaving that open because there's a whole different what they are, like types of porn. But yeah, what's your general opinion of porn?
Eleanor (39:06.58)
Yeah. My general opinion on porn is it should be ethical. If you're going to indulge in porn, it's important that you are literate in pornography and you understand that it is actors acting for the purpose of creating like sensation and clicks and follows. so
Bianca (39:19.513)
you
Eleanor (39:35.016)
If you're not paying for your porn, it's likely that the people aren't being paid. it's likely that you're supporting an industry that, that is involved in like chat trafficking and child sexual behavior. most of the main, mainstream platforms are incredibly dodgy and very unethical. So I would steer away from Pornhub, RedTube, things like that.
and try and find ethical porn. have links to...
KV (40:04.325)
What do think of Belisa? That's my favorite one. Yeah.
Eleanor (40:07.02)
I think Belessa is pretty good. It is ethical as far as I'm aware. It is one that I typically suggest. I would typically go for something like Cheeks or Erika Lust. A little bit more of a feminist kind of angle with real people and yeah just a little bit more ethics around it I would say. But yeah, Belessa is typically pretty good.
KV (40:32.533)
And actually like turns women on because there's a lot of porn that's just disgusting for women, that is my personal opinion. And like so when I tell people I like porn, they think of this, you know, like unethical disgusting porn and they don't realise that there's a whole other world out there that actually is made for women, by women. Yeah, so that's why I ask because it's like, there's so many...
Bianca (40:36.153)
you
Eleanor (40:36.588)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Eleanor (40:51.766)
Yeah.
Eleanor (40:55.774)
Exactly. Yeah.
KV (40:58.607)
There's two drastic ends to the spectrum on that one. Yeah.
Eleanor (41:03.084)
It's similar to sort of saying like, do you feel about food? And it's like, I love food, food's great. I'm not going to subsist on fish and chips for every single meal because I'll probably feel like absolute crap after doing that for a few days. And I'd rather invest in quality ingredients that actually nourish me. And so with porn, there's a lot of awful stuff out there that really, really kind of continues this misogynistic.
Bianca (41:21.696)
Yeah.
Eleanor (41:32.97)
violent, dangerous kind of rhetoric and it can be really harmful. It can be harmful for the people watching it and assuming, yeah, it's okay to do X, Y and Z in bed without asking for consent and without even kissing or, you know, it's very, very distant and it gets more and more violent and I think that's what's damaging about a lot of mainstream porn. But if you're actively seeking to get turned on,
Bianca (41:36.28)
Yeah.
Eleanor (42:02.346)
by people who are consenting, who have created some artwork that is designed to turn you on. Amazing. And if you're paying for it, beautiful. That's how you know it's going to be good quality. Yeah.
KV (42:15.683)
love that tip. People hung it on me because I was paying for porn. So there we go. I'm going to tell everyone that Eleanor told me it was fine.
Bianca (42:16.397)
Yeah.
Eleanor (42:23.912)
Yeah. And honestly, I would, I would argue that if you are accessing free porn, then unfortunately it's likely that you're supporting some really dodgy practices. So pay for your porn.
Bianca (42:35.608)
We've had a few really cool messages come through today, but I would love to if there was one central practice that maybe we could give our listeners that they could either try themselves tonight or with a partner. Is there one like sort of tip that you could give them to spice things up?
KV (42:39.493)
Hey, for your porno.
Eleanor (42:58.87)
For sure. My favorite thing is seducing yourself. So the art of self-seduction. And that can be interpreted as you wish, but it's essentially just the practice of tuning into your own sexuality and turning yourself on. So that could look like putting on some sexy R &B music and like dancing around, having like, you know, a little feel of yourself.
Bianca (43:27.584)
Love that.
Eleanor (43:27.732)
Maybe it's like in the mirror, of like, you know, putting on some lingerie and like taking some selfies. Maybe it's like having a candlelit shower and kind of like massaging yourself and dancing around. Whatever it is, like turn yourself on. And I think it's really importantly that the focus is on yourself and not someone else. Because as soon as we have someone else in the mix, often our brain will switch to performance mode. And so I don't want you to perform.
Bianca (43:30.965)
Yep.
Eleanor (43:57.522)
ever again in sex because it's not a performance. You're not being filmed. Like unless you're actively creating some ethical porn, there's no one there watching, right? Like it's not a performance. You don't have to like do the moans in a certain way or flip your hair a certain way. Like if you are more embodied, then it's going to feel so much more delicious. And that starts with you seducing yourself and feeling really, really fucking good in your own body.
KV (44:05.605)
Hahaha
Bianca (44:20.284)
I love that.
KV (44:26.885)
That is the most amazing advice ever. I am gonna be doing that immediately after the call. so just switching tacks a little like tiny bit, because we need to not keep you forever, even though we would like to. So you've built... I know.
Eleanor (44:26.966)
seduce yourself.
Eleanor (44:32.748)
You
Bianca (44:43.334)
I know, I have so many questions.
KV (44:47.875)
So you've built like this incredibly huge business, right? Like, obviously you do a whole bunch of different things. What's your favorite thing that you do as part of your work?
Eleanor (45:00.458)
Great question. For me, definitely speaking and teaching. I love being able to share my knowledge to a big group of people, to educate people. I love doing podcasts. I love speaking at events, teaching, for example, the staff at Hall of Harper, things like that, where I get to really share my knowledge kind far and wide. That really lights me up.
KV (45:28.471)
awesome. Do you have like a lesson that you've like like you know like what's your biggest lesson in in starting a business like this?
Bianca (45:28.5)
Yeah.
Eleanor (45:31.382)
Mm.
Eleanor (45:37.004)
Ooh, lesson in starting a business?
KV (45:39.226)
Mm.
Bianca (45:39.478)
Well, it's such an intimate niche. I think, first of all, your bravery and courage to actually, you know, put yourself out there in this way and educate in this area says that it speaks volumes about you and like, you know, everything that you're doing at the moment through the business, it's exceptionally inspiring. But I'm sure that there's been a lesson along the way for, you know, sharing such vulnerably and obviously in the niche that you are.
Eleanor (46:08.234)
Yeah, I think at the very, very start, I was really concerned with what people would think about me, even talking about sensuality. the very start, I was like, sensuality is so different to sexuality. And I was like, I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about sensuality. And it was very watered down because I was afraid to talk about sex. And I think I was even afraid to like, look up and read and learn about sex as well at the time. I remember
really being concerned that like my uncle would see my Facebook post or my parents would find my Instagram or something like that. you know, I may or may not have blocked them to just kind of quell that. Yeah, I think that, you know, yes, you can do the blocking kind of route, but also
Bianca (46:46.675)
Thank you.
KV (46:52.677)
We are currently going through that phase ourselves, like currently. We're right there.
Eleanor (47:04.854)
just really owning the fact this is something that you're interested in and like even if it's not in this realm like we are talking about sex all day every day, whatever it is, it's like this is something that I'm interested in and I'm passionate about and it's going to have an impact on someone in some degree and that's why I'm doing this work and...
Bianca (47:19.783)
Thank
Eleanor (47:27.23)
Maybe you don't understand it and maybe it feels weird and cringe to you, but I don't care because there's other people and like look for the proof that other people like, you you, you sharing that story, Bianca, like sharing this with me, like that, that really tells me, okay, wow. Okay. I am actually on the right path. This is good. You know, any DM I get of someone saying, that really resonated or thank you, like a testimonial, like hold onto those.
Bianca (47:46.111)
Thank
Bianca (47:54.645)
Yeah.
Eleanor (47:54.956)
rather than like the very few people that'll be like, ill, why are you talking about that gross? Like, like, cool, it's fine that you're grossed out about it, but maybe that's a you problem and not a me problem.
KV (48:06.029)
Yeah, love it. Love it.
Bianca (48:06.387)
Yeah, yeah. Love your passion, but what is next for you, Alinor Hadley?
Eleanor (48:13.77)
my goodness. Great question. I don't know. I honestly feel like I'm at a bit of a crossroads right now. You know, I've been talking about sex and pleasure for years now, and I'm also very passionate about relationships. I love talking about how to have a really, really high quality relationship. The meeting that I said I had after this is actually my monthly love date with my partner.
And so it's like a little relationship check-in that we do each month. And like, I'm so passionate about people really having a good quality relationship and not putting up with shitty behavior and really working on like, how can we make this the best thing possible rather than just like, they're just this person that is around all the time. Like it's this person that I'm in love with and I'm falling in love with more and more.
Bianca (48:42.462)
Thank you.
Bianca (48:47.572)
or that's special.
Bianca (48:59.699)
Yep.
Eleanor (49:11.116)
every day. I think I'm going to start talking a bit more about the relationship side of things in my work and sensual living and just sort of like pleasure based living. I really want to talk about that more. Like it's not just about sex, you know, like yes, sex is a huge passion of mine and I find it so incredibly exciting to talk about. But I also just want like, I want you to feel good in your everyday. Like how can you make your life more pleasurable? Because that's going to lead to better sex as well.
KV (49:39.333)
Enjoy.
Eleanor (49:41.354)
you
Bianca (49:42.036)
The pleasure, the simple pleasures and the joy.
Eleanor (49:45.228)
Exactly. Yep.
Bianca (49:47.06)
Where can our dear listeners find you?
KV (49:47.065)
Love it.
Eleanor (49:51.193)
You can find me on Instagram at Eleanor Hadley and my website is the same just eleanorhadley.com
KV (49:58.657)
And go have a look everyone because she's got a whole bunch of different stuff that she offers in that thing and we want to do half of it. So more than half really. So it's very exciting. And thank you so much for coming on. We really, really, really, yeah, we love it.
Bianca (49:58.792)
We'll pop everything in the show notes.
Eleanor (50:04.172)
you
Eleanor (50:09.036)
You
Eleanor (50:12.748)
and
Bianca (50:17.445)
Really appreciate you. Thank you so much for your time.
Eleanor (50:21.044)
My pleasure, thank you both for having me, it's been wonderful.